Comments on: Comment sent to the British Lung Foundation

By: UKCIA

UKCIA — Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:32:55 +0000

@ Phrato

Regards vapes:

From the Tokepure page http://www.ukcia.org/activism/tokepure.php:

“Cannabis taken with a vaporiser carries none of the risks of smoking whatsoever.”

And regards ingestion (eating/drinking) Toke pure says:

“The most obvious action the government should do is to legalise and properly regulate and control the cannabis supply, then not only will the cannabis itself be of better quality but users can be encouraged to use it in safer ways – in food or drink for example where knowing the dose and purity of the supply is most important”.

Tokepure is, in a sense, a “stopgap” measure, because it doesn’t need any law change.

There are big problems with eating cannabis while it remains illegal http://www.ukcia.org/culture/eat.php.

Vapes are the way to go, but they’re not cheap or really very practical for simple social use in the way pipes are.

Tokepure is something the government should and could be doing now, there is no logical reason not to and it requires no change in policy.

By: phrtao

phrtao — Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:10:16 +0000

There is no need to smoke or vaporise cannabis to get a high/medicinal benefit from it !!

“Toke pure” does not even mention this fact. Why can’t the people on this site accept that making a tablet or a drink is the safest way to use cannabis? I accept the pragmatic stance of the toke pure campaign but it should not be the sole aim maybe just a stop gap measure

By: maxvape2

maxvape2 — Sat, 16 Jun 2012 18:54:29 +0000

@UKCIA
As you say, the joint-smokers are tobacckgo addicts enjoying whatever it is that they enjoy about tobacckgo, which makes you feel good without being good for you, that is the point. In fact, an easy way to understand this is that in nature sweet foods make you feel good by increasing the blood sugar level (Blood Sugar = Pleasure). Nicotine gets eaten by the pancreas which disgorges insulin which gets eaten by the liver which disgorges glycogen which turns into glucose, raising the Blood Sugar Level whereupon the addict feels “Pleasure”. (Morituri te salutamus, We who are about to die salute you.)

Given what we know about deceitful tobacckgo, the remaining question is where to get some toFRONTgo. Fortunately we have REachFORth to reach for.

Continuing with your point, there’s linguistic evidence that the word “joint” lures some unwary youngsters who have been taught to think enJOYment is the issue. But James “Jesus” Joyce Jr. would probably say Joy is best GENerated from within. My pro-cannabis hypothesis, admittedly, is that cannabis liberates Long Distance Memory function, enabling the mind to cherrypick interesting, amusing, challenging factoids and propositions from near to distant past and resynthesize them in present time, resulting in the Miracle-Wonder inventions and innovations cannabis is famous for sponsoring or stimulating. “Ask not what It will do to/for you, ask what you wish to do with It.”

@phrtao:

Quick run-down of tokepure options, what can now be done:

Vapouriser: advertise the truth, that compared to the cost of cigarettes even an ex$pensive vapouriser pays off in only a few weeks! Beleaguer the government to get rid of law enforcement practices that create fear in the public (yes, among minors too) of getting caught possessing a vapouriser.

E-cigarette: unlike the notoriously centralized oligopoly of cigarette companies, pooling their huge $$ money resources to control the USA and other governments, these are now made by hundreds of little companies, and thousands of recipes with and without nicotine are available in the cartridges. Two years ago “Vapor Rush”, a cannabinoid e-cigarette, was announced– available only in certainCalifornia dispensaries for medical marijuana patients– what has happened to that, why isn’t such a thing available to everyone everywhere who wants an alternative to nicotine or wants a safer method of cannabis use?
One-hitters: the issue is that true vapourising is possible with a one-hitter by holding the flame far enouigh away. One-hitters need to be popularized by educating the public how to scratch the screen before each use, how to sift herb properly etc.

By: UKCIA

UKCIA — Fri, 15 Jun 2012 20:29:16 +0000

@Phrato

Sorry you don’t like Tokepure, but it’s at the heart of this issue and really it’s got nothing to do with the legality of cannabis use. It’s all about how to use cannabis with the lowest level of harm and if we’re thinking about smoking it, then getting people to stop mixing it with tobacco is a really important message.

That goes whatever the legal status of cannabis is.

Of course it’s true that proper control and regulation of the supply side would make things much better for so many reasons, but we are where we are.

@maxvape

Yes, I agree with what you say but would add something else: The “drug” effect of tobacco is enjoyment, smoking tobacco gives a sense of satisfaction. So smoking joints filled with tobacco is enjoyable because the tobacco creates that sensation. We might as well accept that because the thing we hear time and time again from joint smokers is that they enjoy it.

Tobacco is a drug that make you feel good about having taken it; that’s pretty much all it does.

By: phrtao

phrtao — Fri, 15 Jun 2012 17:43:37 +0000

We must not forget that we are really talking about 2 different situations here which cannot be addressed by one single slogan:

1) How best to reduce harm in the current situation with illegally produced cannabis often of dubious quality

2) What are the best and safest cannabis products to produce if it were produced legally under strict quality controls (as alcohol is)

Confusion fuels prohibition and weakens the argument for legalisation

By: phrtao

phrtao — Fri, 15 Jun 2012 16:16:06 +0000

>maxvape
Even with a vaporiser you are still putting hot gases into your lungs (albeit much less harmful than smoke and usually less of it). Your point about a joint actually vaporising is quite right but only if you roll it really tight which needs properly dried weed. With tobacco in the mix (especially cigarette tobacco) it will burn hotter anyway – for some people this may be a requirement if the weed is damp and very green.
Of course pipes, bongs and joints simply don’t compare to the effect of a vaporiser – it’s the next best thing to swallowing something and possibly less harmful if you think your weed/hash may be contaminated

By: maxvape

maxvape — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 23:52:30 +0000

Toke Pure seems to be established language now, high on the google and so forth, so the best next step might be to make sure everyone understands “toke” to mean toast (expose to 385F heat) rather than ignite/burn, i.e. if you are using the one-hitter this means hold the flame far enough below the opening while sucking slow that you delay the glow 19 seconds or so.

When you toke without inhaling smoke, what you are inhaling is vapours. True, by this standard a “joint” is also a vapouriser, but a bad one which delivers a low percentage of the cannabinoids but more heat shock and noxious monoxide. With a joint, vapours are released in a narrow boundary-area or interface between the burning and not-yet-burning herbal particles, from non-burning particles heated by burning ones next door. The faster the joint burns, the more thc is destroyed before it has had time to vapourise out from heating particles before they ignite.

The fact that smoke has a more obvious TASTE than vapours (as cigarette ads have reminded for ages) has misled many persons into thinking they didn’t get their money’s worth unless the herb BURNED. Promoting the idea that a toke with a one-hitter can mean vapourising (don’t worry about taste, you want the cannabinoids) might be a way to confront this fallacy and save many youngsters from getting caught in the mix-with-tobacco trap.

By: phrtao

phrtao — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:29:51 +0000

ps have you read this ?

http://www.naturalnews.com/035980_cannabis_smokers_cancer.html

plus some footnote references

By: phrtao

phrtao — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:19:46 +0000

Some of the dangers talked about are very real with British Cannabis use but that does not make cannabis intrinsically harmful or addictive. Most British users prefer to smoke it and smoke it mixed with tobacco – add to this the very poor quality of home produced cannabis and you have real health risks. Legalise and regulate food products , tablets and drinks containing cannabis extract and all the harm goes away (at least as far as the BLF is concerned).

>Derek
Never liked the ‘Toke Pure’ campaign and I don’t think it is a very good way to argue the case especailly to the BLF since you are advocating putting smoke into users lungs which they will never accept !

By: philosophical ranter

philosophical ranter — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 00:52:34 +0000

Just to say I recently found your site through your post on the Len Richmond video. Very impressed. I am a member of CLEAR to although I’m an occasional follower. What strikes me about many of these organisations is the spontaneity in which they come out with these sweeping remarks. It always strikes me as odd when much of the research widely shows cannabis is harmless. Let’s face it. So why do they come out with these statements? I think if we understood that better we’d make headway. Let’s look at all the organisations that suddenly come out with nonsense like this. Who said what? Who are they connected with? In my opinion these individuals are paid off either by there employer or direct. If they are paid off where are these payments coming from? Direct from government MP who has a vested interest in a Drug company or straight from the drug company. Who went to the BLF and paid them to do this report? Who’s brainchild was it? You see it’s no different to the Daily Mail making up a spontaneous story of lies. Who? Why? Who are they connected with? Is it not time the Cannabis Reform movement took the individuals to court to prove their studies and sweeping statements?